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Thursday, December 26, 2024

Notes About the 2024 Christmas Day Quintupleheader

This is the 17th consecutive year that the NBA had a Christmas Day quintupleheader, and the 77th year that the NBA played games on Christmas Day, a tradition that began during the league's second season. The 2024 Christmas Day quintupleheader featured the reigning NBA champion Boston Celtics, the reigning Western Conference champion Dallas Mavericks, the 2023 NBA champion Denver Nuggets, the 2022 NBA champion Golden State Warriors, and the 2020 NBA champion L.A. Lakers (granted, the latter three teams have significantly different rosters now than they did when they won their respective championships).

Game One: New York Knicks 117, San Antonio Spurs 114

1) The Knicks started this season 4-5, but they went 15-5 in their next 20 games to vault up to third in the Eastern Conference standings behind Cleveland and Boston. The Knicks have a very efficient offense paced by Karl-Anthony Towns (24.7 ppg with .537/.456/.841 shooting splits) and Jalen Brunson (24.6 ppg with .488/.434/.814 shooting splits). Their defense was shaky during the first nine games, but improved in the next 20 games. 

After posting back to back 22-60 seasons, the Spurs entered this game with a respectable 15-14 record. Victor Wembanyama, the 2024 Rookie of the Year, is averaging 24.8 ppg and leading the league with 4.0 bpg after leading the league last season with 3.6 bpg.

2) On November 8, 2023, the Knicks dominated the Spurs 126-105 the first time that Wembanyama faced the Knicks in Madison Square Garden, and Wembanyama had just 14 points on 4-14 field goal shooting. Wembanyama's second visit to Madison Square Garden went much better individually as he scored a game-high 42 points on 16-31 field goal shooting while also ripping down a game-high 18 rebounds, but his heroics were not enough to deliver a win. Wembanyama had a game-high four blocked shots and he dished for four assists while accumulating a +7 plus/minus number, but three of the Spurs' five starters had negative plus/minus numbers as the Knicks outscored the Spurs by 10 points in the non-Wembanyama minutes. Jeremy Sochan had 21 points and nine rebounds, but he also tallied a game-high five turnovers along with a -12 plus/minus number. 

Mikal Bridges scored a team-high 41 points, just four points short of his career high and the second most points scored by a Knick on Christmas Day, trailing only Bernard King's legendary 60 point outburst in 1984. Bridges shot 17-25 from the field in his highest scoring game with New York. Towns battled foul trouble to finish with 21 points and nine rebounds, but he posted a game-worst -13 plus/minus number (tied with the Spurs' Devin Vassell). Brunson added 20 points, a game-high nine assists (tied with the Spurs' Tre Jones), and seven rebounds, but he shot just 7-23 from the field. Josh Hart chipped in 12 points, a team-high 12 rebounds, and six assists. The Knicks outrebounded the Spurs 47-45, and outscored the Spurs in the paint 58-50.

The Knicks led 28-27 at the end of the first quarter, outrebounding the Spurs 17-12 but shooting just 11-28 (.393) from the field. The Knicks outscored the Spurs in the paint, 18-10. Wembanyama scored 10 points on 3-9 field goal shooting, but no other Spur had more than four points. Bridges (nine points), Towns (eight points), and Brunson (seven points) paced the Knicks.

The Spurs flipped the script in the second quarter, outrebounding the Knicks 16-4 and outscoring the Knicks in the paint 22-10 to take a 58-51 halftime lead. Wembanyama had 24 points, 11 rebounds, four assists, and two blocked shots in the first half.

The Knicks closed the third quarter with a 10-0 run--capped by a Bridges three pointer off of a slick Brunson feed--to lead 88-83 heading into the final stanza.

Jones' three point play with 7:16 remaining in the fourth quarter put the Spurs up 102-94, but Bridges scored 12 points down the stretch (and 15 fourth quarter points overall) to lift the Knicks to a hard-earned win.

3) This game is a good example of the small yet not so small differences between a playoff-hardened team that knows how to win and a team that has not yet learned how to win; like most NBA games, this contest featured runs by both teams and excellent individual performances by players from both teams, but down the stretch the Knicks executed better at both ends of the court. After Chris Paul's three pointer cut the Knicks' lead to three with 41.7 seconds remaining, the Knicks secured two offensive rebounds in the final 17 seconds, enabling them to run out the clock and deny the Spurs a chance to tie the game.

Game Two: Minnesota Timberwolves 105, Dallas Mavericks 99

1) This game is a rematch of the 2024 Western Conference Finals, a series that the Mavericks won 4-1 to advance to the NBA Finals. The Mavericks have picked up where they left off last season, and are in a tight three way battle with Houston and Memphis for the second seed in the Western Conference behind the Oklahoma City Thunder. In contrast, the Timberwolves have slipped significantly after trading Karl-Anthony Towns for Julius Randle, Donte DiVincenzo, and other considerations; contrary to the popular notion that small ball is the way to go, the aftermath of this trade is demonstrating yet again that size matters in the NBA. Towns is leading the NBA in rebounding (13.9 rpg) for the Knicks, while the Timberwolves have dropped from 15th in the league in rebounding last season to 23rd this season sans Towns.

2) The Timberwolves only led 26-24 at the end of the first quarter, but they were already up 42-35 with 6:21 remaining in the second quarter when Luka Doncic was sidelined with a left calf injury. Doncic, who scored 14 points on 5-9 field goal shooting in 16 minutes, was unable to return to action, and the Timberwolves exploited his absence to push the margin to 17 points (57-40) by halftime. Dallas players not named Doncic shot 9-34 (.265) from the field in the first half. Despite not playing in the second half, Doncic was the Mavericks' second leading scorer for the entire game.

The Timberwolves led 90-62 with just 1:23 remaining in the third quarter. ESPN commentator Jay Bilas talked about how much fun Minnesota was having. The Mavericks ended the quarter with a 6-0 run, but that just looked like window dressing. However, the Timberwolves scored just seven points in the first 8:42 of the fourth quarter, and they were clinging to a 101-99 lead after Klay Thompson drilled a three pointer at the 1:05 mark. After an Anthony Edwards turnover, Kyrie Irving missed a three pointer that would have put the Mavericks up by one, and the Timberwolves closed out the scoring with an Edwards layup followed by two Randle free throws. 

Edwards scored a team-high 26 points while also grabbing eight rebounds and passing for five assists. Randle contributed 23 points, a game-high 10 rebounds (tied with teammate Rudy Gobert and Dallas' Dereck Lively II), and a game-high eight assists.

Irving poured in a game-high 39 points on 14-27 field goal shooting, including 26 second half points on 9-14 field goal shooting. Bilas joined the chorus of media members who call Irving the greatest ballhandler ever without defining what that means or even stating who else is in the running for that subjective honor. Does it mean being fancy and flashy? If so, Irving does not hold a candle to Pete Maravich, who not only could do everything that Irving does and more but was decades ahead of his time with his showmanship. Does it mean controlling the tempo of the game at the highest level for multiple championship teams? If so, Irving does not rank ahead of Bob Cousy, Walt Frazier, Magic Johnson, and Isiah Thomas. Does it mean being highly efficient in terms of assists versus turnovers? If so, Irving (4269 assists, 1885 turnovers, 2.3 assist/turnover ratio) is far behind John Stockton (15,806 assists, 4244 turnovers, 3.7 assist/turnover ratio) both in total assists and assist/turnover ratio. The recency bias displayed even by sensible commentators like Bilas is perplexing; at least Bilas did not overtly disrespect Cousy and other past greats the way that J.J. Redick, Amin Elhassan, Zach Harper, and others have done.

3) One win against Dallas sans Doncic is not enough evidence to prove that the Timberwolves have righted their ship, particularly considering that the Timberwolves almost fumbled the game away. Regarding the Mavericks, they should be concerned not only about Doncic's health--he recently returned to action after missing two games with a left heel injury--but also about how flat they looked in the first half even before losing Doncic.

Game Three: Philadelphia 76ers 118, Boston Celtics 114

1) The Boston Celtics started 23-6 last season en route to posting a league-best 64-18 record before winning their first NBA title since 2008. This season, the Celtics started 22-7, trailing only the red hot Cleveland Cavaliers (26-4) in the Eastern Conference and the 23-5 Oklahoma City Thunder, who have the Western Conference's best record. Jayson Tatum has made the All-NBA First Team in each of the past three seasons, and this season he is posting the second highest scoring average of his career (28.8 ppg) along with career-high numbers in rebounding (9.3 rpg) and assists (5.7 apg).

Under the terms of the NBA's collective bargaining agreement, Joel Embiid is already ineligible to receive any postseason awards because he will not participate in at least 65 regular season games. He entered Christmas Day averaging 20.6 ppg, 6.8 rpg, and 4.1 apg in eight games; his 76ers went 3-5 in those games, and they began the day with a 12-17 record that ranked 12th in the Eastern Conference.

2) The 76ers' highly touted "Big Three" of Joel Embiid, Paul George, and Tyrese Maxey played together for just the sixth time this season. Maxey scored a game-high 33 points on 12-23 field goal shooting while also passing for a game-high 12 assists, and posting a solid +7 plus/minus number. Embiid added 27 points and nine rebounds but he had a game-worst -18 plus/minus number; usually the 76ers are much better with Embiid on the court, but in this game when Embiid played they leaked oil like an old clunker. George was a non-factor with 12 points on 4-15 field goal shooting and a -16 plus/minus number, but Caleb Martin picked up the slack with 23 points on 8-11 field goal shooting, including 7-9 from three point range.

Tatum scored a team-high 32 points, grabbed a game-high 15 rebounds, and passed for four assists with a +5 plus/minus number. Jaylen Brown bounced back from a bad first half to finish with 23 points, Derrick White added 21 points, and the seemingly ageless Al Horford had 17 points. Horford had a game-high +22 plus/minus number, but he and Tatum were the only Celtics with positive plus/minus numbers; the other eight Celtics who played had plus/minus numbers ranging from -1 to -13. Plus/minus numbers in small sample sizes can be "noisy," but it is fair to say that the Celtics won many of the Embiid versus Horford minutes and lost just about every other matchup combination. Horford has had success guarding Embiid over the years, so this is not surprising.

3) Maxey scored 12 points as the 76ers built a 30-25 lead by the end of the first quarter. The 76ers led by as much as 16 during the second quarter before settling for a 66-58 halftime edge after outscoring the Celtics 36-33 in a defense-optional 12 minute stretch. 

Brown scored just two points on 1-8 field goal shooting in the first half but he took over in the third quarter with 14 points on 6-10 field goal shooting, nearly matching the 76ers by himself as the Celtics won the quarter 24-16 to tie the score at 82 heading into the final stanza.

The fourth quarter mirrored the second quarter, with the 76ers outscoring the Celtics 36-32. The 76ers led 108-94 after Martin's three pointer at the 4:29 mark, but Maxey committed three turnovers in the next two minutes as the Celtics pulled to within 108-105. The 76ers did not score a field goal in the final 4:29, but they made enough free throws to survive.

4) To win an NBA championship, a team must be consistently efficient and productive while maintaining the health of its core group of players for over 100 games during the regular season and the playoffs. The 76ers played their best game of the season versus a Boston team without the services of Jrue Holiday and without the services of Kristaps Porzingis in the second half, and they celebrated after the game as if they had just won a championship; this brings to mind the way that Doug Collins used to make note of which teams celebrated after winning a game and which teams acted like there is a lot more work to do. Collins' point was that the teams that expect to win and that understand the bigger picture are more likely to be successful than teams that get too excited about an early season victory.

To win the 2025 NBA championship, the 76ers must maintain this performance level and this health level for about 80 more games--and, based on the individual and collective resumes of their core players, there is no logical reason to expect them to come close to doing that: Embiid never advanced past the second round of the playoffs in his first eight seasons, Paul George has an 8-11 career playoff series record (including 0-3 in the Conference Finals), and Tyrese Maxey has a 3-4 career playoff series record. Maxey is young enough to develop into a consistently great playoff performer, but Embiid and George are who their resumes say they are.

Game Four: L.A. Lakers 115, Golden State Warriors 113

1) ESPN loves to hype up the Lakers and the Warriors, but entering today's action the Lakers were the seventh seeded team in the Western Conference, a half game ahead of the eighth seeded Warriors. That means that these are Play-In Tournament teams, not championship contenders. This should not surprise anyone: the Lakers have not finished higher than seventh in the regular season standings since they won the 2020 "bubble" championship, missing the playoffs once, losing in the first round twice, and making one fluky run to the Western Conference Finals; since 2020, the Warriors have finished higher than seventh just twice while winning one title (2022), missing the playoffs twice, and losing in the second round once.

Three weeks ago, I assessed the first 22 games of the J.J. Redick era, concluding that his 12-10 Lakers "have a mediocre offense and an atrocious defense. They have terrible rebounding numbers, and they often don't play hard. There is zero evidence that Redick is providing any kind of strategic advantage or that he is effective at motivating players to give maximum effort." In their next seven games, the Lakers went 4-3 and did nothing to refute the above analysis.

The Warriors started the season 10-3, and the ESPN hype machine nearly exploded, paying no attention to the reality that five of those wins were against Portland, Utah, New Orleans (twice), and Washington (the three worst teams in the Western Conference and the worst team in the league). The Warriors went 5-11 in their next 16 games, failing to score at least 100 points five times and giving up at least 108 points seven times, reaching a nadir in both directions on December 19 with a 144-93 loss to the Memphis Grizzlies.

2) The Lakers built a 55-52 halftime lead despite losing Anthony Davis to an ankle injury after seven scoreless minutes. The Lakers played better without Davis, who had a -7 plus/minus number during his cameo appearance, but this is small sample size theater, and not an indication that the Lakers would be better long-term without Davis, who is leading the team in scoring (26.6 ppg), rebounding (11.8 rpg), and blocked shots (2.2 bpg) this season. 

LeBron James led both teams with 19 first half points, while Stephen Curry topped the Warriors with 16 points. The Lakers outrebounded the Warriors 24-21 and committed just two turnovers while the Warriors had six turnovers. The Lakers also shot 9-9 from the free throw line while the Warriors were just 1-3 from the free throw line.

The Warriors narrowly outplayed the Lakers in a tightly contested second half, outscoring the Lakers 61-60, outrebounding the Lakers 23-17, and committing six turnovers while the Lakers committed seven turnovers, but the outcome was decided in the exciting final 22 seconds. Before dissecting the ebbs and flows of those last possessions, it should be noted that the Lakers led 104-94 with 3:27 remaining before a 13-5 Warriors run put the outcome in doubt. In other words, better execution by the Lakers could have sealed the win earlier.

The late drama began after Max Christie drained two free throws to put the Lakers up 111-107. The Warriors called a timeout, and then on the ensuing possession Stephen Curry drilled a right corner three pointer over James' outstretched arms. Austin Reaves hit two free throws to make the score 113-110, and the ESPN crew of Mike Breen, Doris Burke, and Richard Jefferson discussed the merits of intentionally fouling before the Warriors could attempt a tying three pointer. Burke noted that when Redick was a commentator he expressed his opinion that teams should always fall in this situation. The Warriors befuddled the Lakers by having multiple players cut through the paint (a distraction that a well-coached team would ignore, because a two pointer would not help a team that is down by three and has no timeouts left), and then Curry nailed a three pointer. Curry did not celebrate, because he knew that the game was tied with 6.3 seconds remaining, which meant that the Lakers had enough time to win the game in regulation. On the Lakers' last possession, Reaves drove from behind the three point line on the left wing all the way to the hoop to drop in the game-winning layup.

There is no doubt that this game had an exciting conclusion with Curry's two spectacular treys followed by Reaves' foray to the hoop, but--as noted above--the Warriors were 5-11 in their previous 16 games and the Lakers have not exactly been setting the world on fire. This game was entertaining and fun to watch, but in June 2025 we will not be looking back and saying that this was a pivotal point in determining who this season's champion will be.

James scored a team-high 31 points on 12-22 field goal shooting, and he had a game-high tying 10 assists. Reaves not only scored the game-winner, but he also had a triple double (26 points, team-high 10 rebounds, 10 assists). Rui Hachimura (18 points), Max Christie (16 points), and Dalton Knecht (13 points) were the Lakers' other double figure scorers.

Curry scored a game-high 38 points on 14-24 field goal shooting, including 8-15 from three point range. Andrew Wiggins had 21 points and a game-high 12 rebounds. Even with Curry, the Warriors are not a great offensive team--and, as the last possession highlighted (losing a game on a drive to the hoop from behind the three point line is suboptimal, to put it mildly), the Warriors are not a great defensive team, either. Being not great at either end of the court adds up to being a .500 team.

3) After spending most of his career missing a lot of games due to various injuries, Davis played a career-high 76 games last season and has only missed one game this season, so it will be interesting to see how long he is sidelined by the ankle injury that he suffered in this game. Speculating about how good the Lakers might be if Davis consistently stayed healthy is pointless unless/until he consistently stays healthy. In Davis' first 12 seasons, he played at least 70 games three times, and he played less than 65 games (the current standard to be eligible for postseason awards) seven times. Davis will turn 32 before the end of this season; is he going to find the fountain of youth/health now after not discovering it during his prime?

Game Five: Phoenix Suns 110, Denver Nuggets 100

1) Nikola Jokic is posting historic numbers this season, ranking second in the league in scoring (career-high 30.9 ppg), fourth in rebounding (12.5 rpg), and third in assists (9.7 rpg) while leading the league in three point field goal percentage (.514). When he is on the court, the Nuggets often look like a championship contender, but when he is not on the court the Nuggets often look like a Draft Lottery team. That explains why Jokic is averaging a career-high 37.1 mpg. The Nuggets have overcome injuries and a thin bench to post the fifth best record in the strong Western Conference.

The Suns entered Christmas Day with a 13-5 record when Kevin Durant played, and a 1-9 record when he did not play; the Suns are a finesse team that often gets pushed around, and they are not very good without Durant.

2) ESPN's Stephanie White correctly noted that Russell Westbrook has had a positive impact on the Nuggets because of the way that he pushes the pace and because of his playmaking. It is refreshing to listen to a commentator who does not make up nonsensical excuses to bash Westbrook, who has proven throughout his career that he is a great, loyal teammate who consistently plays hard. Westbrook entered the game averaging 12.0 ppg, 6.4 apg (second on the team), 4.1 rpg, and 1.7 spg (first on the team) while playing 25.9 mpg and coming off of the bench in 20 out of his first 27 games (the 36 year old is one of just four Nuggets to not miss a game this season). 

3) Devin Booker missed his third straight game, and the Suns were also without the services of Grayson Allen (who is in concussion protocol)--but they had Durant and Bradley Beal, which proved to be more than enough. The Suns built a 58-56 halftime lead by shooting 21-41 (.512) from the field while committing just four turnovers, a high level of offensive efficiency that compensated for being outrebounded 25-18. Durant and Beal scored 14 points each in the first half.

The Suns did not shoot well in the second half (20-46, .435), but they played uncharacteristically well defensively, holding the Nuggets to 44 points on 14-33 (.424) field goal shooting. The Suns had just three turnovers while the Nuggets had nine in the second half alone and 16 in the game. The Suns led by as many as 15 points in the second half, and they did not trail in the fourth quarter.

Denver blew out Phoenix 117-90 in Denver on December 23, holding the Suns to 33-83 (.398) field goal shooting and outrebounding the Suns 46-39; it is clear that game was very much on the Suns' minds during this game.

Durant and Bradley Beal tied for game-high scoring honors (27 points). Durant had a game-high six assists (tying teammates Jusuf Nurkic and Royce O'Neale, and Denver's Jamal Murray). Tyus Jones contributed 17 points and four assists, while Nurkic had eight points, and a team-high 13 rebounds. Jokic led the Nuggets with 25 points and a game-high 15 rebounds, but he had just two assists. Michael Porter Jr. scored 22 points, and Westbrook added 17 points, six rebounds, and a team-high +3 plus/minus number (he was the only Nugget with a positive plus/minus number).

4) One of my favorite plays from this game happened at the end of the first half. Jokic grabbed a defensive rebound with less than five seconds remaining, took a few dribbles, and launched a three pointer from just inside the half court line. What is so great about that? As mentioned above, Jokic is leading the league in three point field goal percentage, but instead of trying to protect his personal statistics he took that desperation heave because if it goes in then it helps his team and if it misses no harm is done because time will run out. There are many players who either will not take that desperation heave, or who make sure to wait until just after time expires before letting it go. Shane Battier once admitted that is the only selfish kind of play that he made during his career, because field goal percentage could matter at contract time.

Analysis of Previous Christmas Day Quintupleheaders:

Notes About the 2023 Christmas Day Quintupleheader (2023)

Notes About the 2022 Christmas Day Quintupleheader (2022)

Notes About the 2021 Christmas Day Quintupleheader (2021)

Notes About the 2020 Christmas Day Quintupleheader (2020)

Notes About the 2019 Christmas Day Quintupleheader (2019)

Several Stars Shine During Christmas Day Quintupleheader (2018)

Christmas Day Quintupleheader Recap (2012)

Comments and Notes About the Christmas Day Quintupleheader (2011)

Thoughts and Observations About the Christmas Day Quintupleheader (2010)

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posted by David Friedman @ 1:21 AM

8 comments

8 Comments:

At Sunday, December 29, 2024 1:11:00 AM, Blogger David Friedman said...

Michael:

I have not done an in depth analysis of second round draft picks, but of the players you listed I would take Willis Reed first. I would take everyone you listed ahead of Ginobili, because each of the players you listed was good enough to be the best player on a championship team (and both Reed and DJ accomplished that feat). Ginobili was perfect as a second option but would have been miscast as a number one option; his self-awareness about that is one of the major differences between him and James Harden, who fled OKC to be miscast as a number one option. Ginobili smartly spent his entire career next to Tim Duncan instead of chasing money and individual glory.

 
At Monday, December 30, 2024 6:02:00 PM, Blogger David Friedman said...

Michael's 12/26/24 comment that I responded to above was accidentally deleted. Here is what he wrote:

I believe that Kevin Durant also publicly admitted that he’s reluctant to launch desperation heaves in an effort to preserve his field goal percentage. Ideally he would take those shots but on some level I do appreciate the honesty as there are countless players in the league who do this and would never own up to it.

As for Jokic, he is not only the undisputed greatest second round draft pick ever but he emerged from the shadows of the second round to slowly enter the “greatest center ever” discussion. I would currently rank him just under Hakeem Olajuwon but definitely below Shaq and he has quite a bit of work to do to enter the Russell-Chamberlain-Alcindor/Abdul-Jabbar discussion.

I’m trying to decide who the next greatest second round selection is after Jokic and it’s not an easy task. Most people seem to think it’s Manu Ginobili but I am very reluctant to rank him ahead of Spencer Haywood, Alex English, Dennis Johnson, and Willis Reed.

 
At Tuesday, December 31, 2024 2:39:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ginobili might be in the top 10 2nd round draft picks all-time, not sure and not going to look into it very deeply, but he isn't close to at least most of the guys you listed. I think all of those guys are in the HOF and Ginobili is, too, though Ginobili wouldn't be if not for his international play. He made 1 AS team in 16 seasons, never in any MVP conversation, and only won 1 6th man of the year award. Just to name one other player easily over Ginobili for a 2nd round draft pick: Dennis Rodman.

 
At Wednesday, January 01, 2025 2:00:00 AM, Blogger David Friedman said...

Anonymous:

I agree with your general evaluation of Ginobili, but to set the record straight he was a two-time All-NBA selection, a two-time All-Star, the 2008 Sixth Man of the Year, and twice finished in the top 10 in MVP voting. I also would take Rodman and other second round picks over Ginobili.

 
At Thursday, January 02, 2025 10:10:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes, I didn't see the other AS selection he made. I thought he had 2, but only saw 1 for some reason. Solid player, but hard to justify the HOF based on NBA play alone. But, there's been bigger head scratchers that been voted into the HOF in recent years.

 
At Thursday, January 02, 2025 4:05:00 PM, Anonymous Michael said...

Yeah, there are quite a few second round selections who should be ranked ahead of Ginobili and I definitely should have mentioned Dennis Rodman. He was a historically greater defender/rebounder than Ginobili was a scorer/playmaker by a wide margin. I don’t have anything against Manu Ginobili it’s just that the majority of greatest second round selections lists by the media have him at second when in reality he doesn’t even crack the top five.

Unsurprisingly, there are also several other players who are ranked absurdly higher than they should be. I couldn’t believe how highly ranked Draymond Green and Gilbert Arenas were on some of the lists but I shouldn’t be surprised. Players who are media favorites are usually completely overrated.

 
At Saturday, January 04, 2025 3:07:00 PM, Blogger David Friedman said...

Anonymous:

It is the Basketball Hall of Fame, not the NBA Hall of Fame, so a candidate’s entire resume as player, coach, or contributor is considered.

 
At Saturday, January 04, 2025 3:10:00 PM, Blogger David Friedman said...

Michael:

I am not sure which lists you are referencing, but I am sure that Ginobili should be ranked lower than second among all-time second round draft picks.

 

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